Jacques and Jennifer talk about the dismal state of democracy in Australia, especially with little space between the two main parties on things that urgently need to change (even before the current downward spiral of the Coalition).

Cases in point are: lack of real action on climate change and environment, military entwinement with the US, our support for Israel's ongoing war on Gaza, and growing inequality embedded in our taxation, education and housing systems.

Certainly, real change is needed and the presenters begin a conversation about this, to be continued in the next program.