# Into the Fold, Episode 1: ‘So immediate’ transcript

*Voiceover*
You’re listening to a 3CR podcast, 
recorded in a 3CR Community Radio studio 
in Melbourne, Australia.  
If you like what you hear, 
please consider donating or subscribing, 
so we can keep bringing you more independent community content.  

For more information, go to 3cr.org.au

(Music: Enne R ‘Stimulacrum’)

*Kermie Breydon*
Hello and welcome to Into the Fold!  
I’m coming to you 
from a combination of 
the lovely cosy studios 
of community radio 3CR on Wurundjeri Country 
and a bit of my bedroom on Boonwurrung Biik, 
and, just like you, 
people are listening to this program 
right around the continent, 
on the Community Radio Network.  

So first off, 
let’s acknowledge the Traditional Owners 
of all these places 
and I want to pay my respects to elders.

We’re gonna be exploring 
the incredible power and nuances 
of what happens 
when disabled people in the media 
— yeah, hi — 
get to define our own 
professional development infrastructure.  
We start by connecting with community.

So, hey, nice to meet you.  
I’m Kermie Breydon, some radio nerd, 
fascinated with how this intimate, everyday theatre 
conjures up space right into people's lives.

When I made myself known to the 
Community Media Training Organisation — 
curious about its work 
and hoping to learn who else was out there — 
I wound up enrolled in “Audio Ability”.

All these tendrils 
that stretch across the landscape 
and wrap gently but firmly 
around the places 
where community finds purchase and purpose: 
that is the people.  

It’s like a vast passionfruit vine.  

In this first episode, 
we’ll nose our way in through the leaves, 
to feel for, find and follow 
the branch of 
blind and low vision broadcasting 
— straight after we’ve sussed out this course.

Digital journalist, producer and radio presenter Gemma Purves 
works at the Community Media Training Organisation, 
as the Project Manager of Audio Ability.  
She is joining us today from the lands of the Gadigal people.

Gemma, thank you for being part of the show — welcome!

*Gemma Purves*
Thanks so much for having me.

*Kermie Breydon*
Very happy to.

Could you tell us a bit about 
building capacity to support relationships 
between community stations 
and community members who have disabilities?

*Gemma Purves*
Audio Ability began 
as a concept by an academic up in Queensland, 
Dr Kim Stewart.  

And she really wanted to see tools available for people, 
initially with intellectual disabilities, 
to do their own radio shows. 

So she approached the C.M.T.O.  
We applied for a grant, 
and this is how Audio Ability came about.

Now, what we do 
is we have a wide range of contacts 
across the sector. 
There’s like three hundred radio stations, 
community radio stations in Australia⸺

*Kermie Breydon*
Wow.

*Gemma Purves*
⸺and we run training with stations all over. 

I’m really excited to share 
that we’ve got funding to do a seventh round, 
which will happen early next year.

But yeah we have got relationships with stations, 
we have built new relationships with stations 
who have reached out to us. 
It’s a lot of legwork. 
You literally are picking up the phone, 
calling radio stations to see if they’re interested. 
To also finding out what their accessibility is like. 

*Kermie Breydon*
How do they benefit?  
And how do their communities of listeners benefit 
from this sort of program?

*Gemma Purves*
Yeah, I mean, 
I am obviously really proud of what we do 
and I think that everyone benefits, 
because at the end of the day, 
there has been a reduction 
in the number of people who volunteer, 
in Australia. 
And that’s just across all organisations 
that rely on volunteers.

*Kermie Breydon*
Yep.

*Gemma Purves*
And so actually there are some stations out there 
that are really struggling, 
to both bring in new volunteers 
to diversify their volunteer base — 
which is obviously super, super important, 
you know, community is made up from 
many different voices and backgrounds, 
and we want to represent that — 
and to keep the ones that they have.  

And so by having Audio Ability come into your station, 
ideally you’re creating some paid employment 
for one of your current volunteers 
to mentor the students 
and also you’re getting a fully trained-up volunteer 
who is bringing in a fresh perspective, 
a new voice on your airwaves.

And also we support stations 
to actually improve their accessibility.

So, for instance, 
students that are blind or low-vision, 
that need to use text-to-audio software, 
we’ve got a great mentor, Paul Price.

He often provides assistance to stations 
that have never had blind presenters before, 
and he will walk them through how to 
— fairly easily, in all honesty — 
adapt their studio equipment 
so that they can have 
blind presenters do their own show 
without needing a support worker 
to do the panel for them.

*Kermie Breydon*
That’s great.

So I guess that means 
you’re helping incorporate people 
who have a wide range of experiences of disability.  
Who are you looking to reach, 
if you had to summarise it?

*Gemma Purves*
Oh, I don’t want to be trite about it, 
but literally anyone who identifies as having a disability, 
we are interested in bringing them into the fold.  
So we try not to be too judgmental about it; 
you don’t need to be on N.D.I.S., 
you don’t need to have D.S.P.  
We understand 
that not everyone has access to the kind of⸺ 
the, the medical supports 
to be formally recognised. 
And so we respect people’s self-identification that way.

And what we’ve discovered 
is that there’s been 
a really incredible mix of people who’ve applied. 
We’ve even had someone who is Deaf, 
and their first language is Auslan, 
do the course.  
Great mix of people. 
We’ve had people with psychosocial disabilities, 
yes with intellectual, with physical disabilities — 
so we’ve had people in wheelchairs, 
quadriplegics, 
people who are autistic like myself... 
Yeah, we try not to discriminate 
and we try to accommodate everyone’s needs.

Sometimes it’s hard, 
for a variety of reasons. 
So yeah, it’s not always perfect, 
but we do try and be as broad as possible, 
and that’s also where the mentors come in, 
to do that one-to-one support 
and just help facilitate 
people become part of a community 
at their radio station.

*Kermie Breydon*
Thank you, Gemma.  
We’ve been talking to Gemma Purves 
from the Community Media Training Organisation.  
We’ll come back to Gemma in the next episode.

You’re listening to Into the Fold 
on the Community Radio Network, 
and I’m Kermie Breydon, yappin’.  
Together we’re meeting 
folks connected with 
the Audio Ability radio training program 
for people with disability 
of all kinds, 
but I’d really like to do 
a bit of a deep dive 
into an area I’m not so familiar with.

Gemma mentioned Paul Price.  
Let’s get him on the line!

Paul Price, blind since birth.  
Still going — absolute commitment.  
Also, super committed to community radio.

He’s been a fixture 
at Reading Radio Brisbane 
since a whole other millennium to this one.

Paul, thank you for joining us.

*Paul Price*
Thank you very much for having me.

*Kermie Breydon*
What sort of things do you do 
with the Community Media Training Organisation?  
I understand you’ve done a lot with different stations, yeah?

*Paul Price*
I have.  
I have been a mentor with C.M.T.O. for four years, 
three or four years, now.

*Kermie Breydon*
Yep.

*Paul Price*
I can’t remember how many mentees I’ve had, 
but I’ve done face‐to‐face mentoring in Brisbane, 
but I’ve also done remote mentoring.

*Kermie Breydon*
Ah.

*Paul Price*
And helped them through the course.

I’ve also done some accessibility testing and consultation 
for stations to make their tech accessible 
for people with low or no vision, 
using my experience 
to work out the best possible path forward, 
so that somebody can use their systems and their panels and…

That depends on the person 
and it depends on the gear that’s in the station 
as to whether they use their own laptop.  

Often it is the best way, 
because you know your own laptop.

*Kermie Breydon*
Mm.

*Paul Price*
And as somebody with a vision impairment or total blindness, 
you’ve got to have your tech set up the way that you can use it.

*Kermie Breydon*
Yeah, for sure.

*Paul Price*
So it’s often difficult to come into a station 
and use their systems.  
Often better just to plug it 
through a audio or a U.S.B. 
into the desk.  
You’ve got everything.  
You can’t screw anything up for anyone else.  
Or they can’t screw it up for you.  

Because sometimes people will change stuff 
and it will affect the way the screen‐readers read ⸺

*Kermie Breydon*
Oh, I can imagine.

*Paul Price*
⸺ what’s on the screen, so.

*Kermie Breydon*
Mm.

*Paul Price*
But I’m helping with another person 
who’s probably going to use the station’s computer software 
and the station’s panel, 
because it’s a lot similar to the one that we have in Brisbane.

*Kermie Breydon*
Ah cool.

*Paul Price*
So I think the accessibility’s 
going to work quite well, with that.

*Kermie Breydon*
Oh, that’s ace!
Thanks for the chat, Paul.

*Paul Price*
Thank you very much.

*Kermie Breydon*
Low‐vision broadcasting specialist, Paul Price, 
who’s gonna walk us through 
that Reading Radio Brisbane set‐up, 
as well as what’s else he’s been up to, 
in subsequent episodes.

In a few minutes, 
we’re going to hear directly 
from one of those broadcasters 
who Paul helped to get settled in.

Right now, 
we’re moving north a smidge, through Turrbal Country, 
from Magandjin Brisbane to Caboolture.

Cause during this series, 
we’re spotlighting music 
from artists who know disability, as well, 
starting with a First Nations kid 
whose family call her “beautifully unique”.

Grace Alexandra identifies as neurodiverse.  
And as part of that, 
she has struggled 
with selective mutism.  
But something that’s really helped 
has been her enrolment in 
inclusive education and music programs 
at both her local primary and high schools, 
including being taught songs in Language 
by Gubbi‐Gubbi Traditional Owner 
Aunty Stacey Serico‐Blair.  
Grace has picked up 
sax, guitar, piano, and drums, 
and went to a songwriting workshop 
down at Kameygal Music Studio, 
where she co‐wrote this one 
with Mina‐Siale Latukefu and David Gugliotta.  
This is Grace Alexandra, with ‘Kiss’.

(Music: Grace Alexandra ‘Kiss’)

*Voiceover*
You’re listening to a 3CR podcast.  
3CR is an independent community radio station,
based in Melbourne, Australia.  
We need your financial support to keep going.

Go to www.3cr.org.au 
for more information 
and to donate online.

Now stay tuned 
to hear the rest of your 3CR podcast.

*Voiceover*
Don’t have a million dollars 
and still want to have a good education for your kid?  
Tune into the DOGS program.  
We are the Defenders of Government Schools, 
at 12 p.m. on Saturdays here on 3CR: 
855 on the A.M. dial, podcast, 
streaming live on 3cr.org.au, 
and 3CR Digital.

We defend government schools because they need it.

*Voiceover*
3CR: here to stay.

*Kermie Breydon*
Hey, I’m Kermie Breydon.  
This is Into the Fold, 
from 3CR, on the Community Radio Network.

Tash Brake took part in the Audio Ability course 
with her local station 3MDR,  
in the Dandenong Ranges.  
Now, she has her own program there, Out of Sight, 
presenting music from the nineteen-seventies.

Welcome, Tash! Thank you for joining us.

*Natasha Brake*
Thank you for having me.

*Kermie Breydon*
Oh, you are so welcome.  
What is it about the music from that decade 
that you want to return to it, week after week?

*Natasha Brake*
Oh, you know I get asked this all the time 
and I still haven’t got a really good answer.  
Really, it’s just the best decade ever.

*Kermie Breydon*
Mmhm?

*Natasha Brake*
It has amazing variety.  
So you’ve got, you know, 
your tinkly little pop tunes; 
you’ve got your very, very serious hard rock; 
you’ve got your disco; 
you've got your funk; 
and everything in-between: 
all the singer-songwriters...  
So yeah, I think I... 
In one word, it’s the variety.

*Kermie Breydon*
And then, 
during your mentorship, 
what did you do?

*Natasha Brake*
So there were sort of two parts of it.  
We had regular online meetings.  
So, that was a group training program, 
so there was a combination of 
information about community radio, 
different techniques that you use on the radio, 
and also just a bit of a chat with the other participants.

*Kermie Breydon*
Mmhm.

*Natasha Brake*
Being the Audio Ability training, 
there was a whole range of different disabilities, 
so that was really interesting: 
just getting different ideas and different perspectives.  
And of course, from across the whole country, as well,
so that was pretty incredible.

*Kermie Breydon*
Yeah, very cool.

*Natasha Brake*
Yeah, it was really cool.  
And we even sort of started sharing playlists and things, 
a little bit, too, and... 
So it was really interesting.

I mean, I’m not very good at theory; 
I’m a terrible student.  
But it did manage to keep my attention ⸺

*Kermie Breydon*
Yeah?

*Natasha Brake*
⸺ I went every single week, religiously.  
And yeah, just understanding a little bit about community radio.

*Kermie Breydon*
Mmhm.

*Natasha Brake*
And yeah, the more you know about community radio, 
the more you want to know about community radio.  
Cause it really is, it is a lovely space, 
where you’re really connecting with grassroots, real people. 
You know, it’s not sort of like commercial radio, 
where it’s all sort of algorithms just churning out whatever ⸺

*Kermie Breydon*
No.

*Natasha Brake*
⸺ So just finding out about the community radio community 
and, yeah, and then being a part of it, 
getting linked in.  
Part of the course as well: 
you have a mentor that helps you then with some practical work.  

I had a mentor and we went to a studio.  
We actually used the R.M.I.T. studios ⸺

*Kermie Breydon*
Ah.

*Natasha Brake*
⸺ at SYN radio, in the city.

*Kermie Breydon*
Mmhm.

*Natasha Brake*
Just because of, you know, logistics, so...  
And that was just having that experience of, like, 
sitting in a studio, having a microphone in front of you.  
I tell you what — 
that was terrifying.  
The first time I had a microphone put in front of me, 
I just went completely blank.  
I had nothing to say.

*Kermie Breydon*
Mmhm.

*Natasha Brake*
Then it was just practicing that 
and getting used to — 
a bit like what you’re doing — 
getting used to saying your call sign for your station 
and your program, 
and introducing your guests, 
and introducing your songs, 
and just learning all of that.  
And, honestly, when you are learning, 
that feels like a lot.  
It felt like a lot to take in.

*Kermie Breydon*
Yeah.

*Natasha Brake*
And then, yeah, then after the, after all of that, 
you then get the opportunity to link in with your local station.  
So, mine is 3MDR.  
So Mountain District Radio, up in the Dandenong Ranges.  
And yeah, had a very, very positive, welcoming experience, 
getting my show on air.  
So, yeah.

*Kermie Breydon*
Aw, wonderful.  
This is Into the Fold 
on the Community Radio Network.  
Tash Brake is telling us about 
getting into the fold 
of community radio.

We’ll find out how her show 
has turned out, 
in a tick.

Here’s a musician who’s taken inspiration 
from acts who hit their stride 
during the singer-songwriter boom 
of the nineteen-seventies.  
Back up on Turrbal and Jagera peoples’ Country, 
this is Artemis V, with ‘Lost is Found’.

(Music: Artemis V ‘Lost is Found’)

*Blues singer*
Well if you listen to 3CR, 
Clap your hands!  
If you listen to 3CR, 
Clap your hands!

If you listen to 3CR, 
You sure know where you are.  
If you listen to 3CR, 
Clap your hands!

If you listen to 3CR, 
Clap your hands!  
If you listen to 3CR, 
Clap your hands!

Well check out the happy vibe!  
They gonna ring up and subscribe.  
If you listen to 3CR ⸺ 
⸺ Flap your ears!

What! Who the hell is that?

Flap your ears!

What you talking about?  
I ain’t no elephant!  
Get out of here!  
This is hand-made radio.

Flap your ears!

Get out⸺ Get the hell out of here, now.

Flappy, flappy, flappy, flappy...

*Kermie Breydon*
Hi, I’m Kermie Breydon, 
pronouns they/them, 
and you are tapped into 
the Community Radio Network, 
where we’re hearing from Natasha Brake — 
a graduate a couple of years back 
of the Audio Ability course 
and now the host of Out of Sight on 3MDR.

So Tash, 
can you tell us a bit about your show?  
What’s involved in doing that?

*Natasha Brake*
So, it’s a two‐hour slot 
and it is involved.

Because I use adaptive technology... 
So, with my vision impairment ⸺

*Kermie Breydon*
Mmhm.

*Natasha Brake*
⸺ I can’t actually use the studio computer, 
because it doesn’t have a screen‐reader.  
So we had a lot of troubleshooting to figure out, 
well, I’m going to have to bring my own computer in, 
because that has the screen‐reader built in.  
And how are we gonna get that connected to the panel?

*Kermie Breydon*
Yep.

*Natasha Brake*
And how are we gonna connect it to the panel so that 
only I hear the screen‐reader.  
Cause we didn’t want the listeners, 
“hearing my screen‐reader 
talking in the background 
the whole time”.  
So you know ⸺

*Kermie Breydon*
No, that’s private business.

*Natasha Brake*
Yes.  
That’s exactly right.

So we had to figure all that out 
and then as well find a play‐out system 
that would totally work with my screen‐reader and a keyboard ⸺

*Kermie Breydon*
Mmm.

*Natasha Brake*
⸺ so that I didn’t have to use the mouse or anything.

*Kermie Breydon*
Mmhm.

*Natasha Brake*
So there was a lot of figuring things out, 
but we did it.  
So we have the voiceover coming through 
a different channel to the music, 
and we found a nice little play‐out system 
that’s very easy to use.  

So basically, each week 
I have to get two hours’ worth of content ready to go.  
That usually amounts to about 
anything between sort of twenty‐three to twenty‐nine songs 
that I put together in sort of playlists, 
and have the station announcements as well, 
and give it some kind of flow.

*Kermie Breydon*
Mm.

*Natasha Brake*
And then preparing my program notes 
so that I’ve got the list of the songs 
and the artists 
and the year it was released 
and any other little fun facts for that track.  

That’s basically what happens each week.  
So I bring my computer in, 
plug it into the panel, 
and away we go.  

And then, with time, 
you build up a bit more confidence.  
You then introduce a few more little segments.  
So I’ve got some regular segments now.

*Kermie Breydon*
Oh nice.

*Natasha Brake*
Because my slot is in the middle of the day, 
at the twelve o’clock, noon, 
I have the Time Capsule News.  
So that’s where I just pick a year from the 1970s 
and we just do like a pretend news bulletin from that time, 
so it’s like historic.

*Kermie Breydon*
Oh, fantastic.

*Natasha Brake*
And I get all of the other presenters from the station 
to do the news reads, 
and that gives me the opportunity 
to then promote their shows as well ⸺

*Kermie Breydon*
Yeah, yeah, really good.

*Natasha Brake*
⸺ bit of cross‐promotion.

Then we also have the Instrumental of the Week, 
cause there was a lot of improv and groovy stuff 
happening in the seventies ⸺

*Kermie Breydon*
Oh yeah.

*Natasha Brake*
⸺ so there’s no shortage of instrumentals.  
So we feature an instrumental each week.  
And I usually do that at home.  
I usually do that as a pre‐record 
that I then just slot into my play‐out system, as a track.  
That’s always a bit of fun as well.

*Kermie Breydon*
Yeah.

*Natasha Brake*
And then currently as well, 
we have a local community subscriber, 
and they’re a bowls club, 
so I also have them provide 
a Bowl You Over track each week, as well.

So yeah, we have some little segments that happen each week 
and occasionally I also do interviews, 
but yeah, I’m still a bit nervous about interviews.

*Kermie Breydon*
Oh no, fair enough.

*Natasha Brake*
Yeah.

*Kermie Breydon*
Well, we won’t keep you 
for too much longer 
in this one.  
But how does it feel, 
when you’re in the studio, 
getting to share this music 
that you are so in love with, 
and being part of a radio community?

*Natasha Brake*
Yeah, well, that’s really, 
I suppose, has been the surprise.  
Because I really wasn’t expecting 
people just to be tuning in that much.

And it’s amazing how people do.  

They text in.  
And they’re always, 
it’s so positive, like...  
Nobody... I don’t...  
Never has anyone texted in and go,
“I really hate that song”.  
They only text in because they love it, 
and, yeah, it’s really nice.  
I’ve got some regular texter‐innerers ⸺

*Kermie Breydon*
Yeah?

*Natasha Brake*
⸺ now, and it’s great.  
And I sort of get a sense of what they like.  
And so I’ll make sure that, you know... 
Put a few of their favourites in, 
every now and again.  
And sometimes they’ll actually send me stuff: 
“You’ve never played this.”  
And quite often, you know, 
I haven’t even heard of them, 
so I then go on this discovery.  
So it’s a really lovely sort of two‐way thing, 
and yeah, it’s...  
There is something about live radio 
because it’s so... 
it’s so immediate, 
like, you know, 
you play your song,
somebody hears the song, 
and they respond straight away ⸺

*Kermie Breydon*
Mmm.

*Natasha Brake*
⸺ like, it’s very sort of instant.  
So you have that real sort of sense of connection.  
Yeah, no, it’s really lovely.  
It’s very, very definitely my happy place.  
Yeah, my two‐hour show.

*Kermie Breydon*
And, you know what, I think 
they love the music, 
but also they’ve embraced you, Tash.

*Natasha Brake*
Yeah, they have in a way.  
But, you know: 
the people that listen to my show, 
they are very groovy.

*Kermie Breydon*
Of course!

Well, that was the very groovy Natasha Brake, 
who hosts Out of Sight — groovy name — on 3MDR.

Thank you so much for taking the time 
to chat with us today, Natasha.

*Natasha Brake*
Thanks for having me.

*Kermie Breydon*
Out of Sight airs every Wednesday 
from 11 A.M. til 1 P.M. 
on 97.1 F.M. in and around the Dandenongs 
or through 3mdr.com

Next time on Into the Fold, 
we’re gonna get to know a couple of people 
engaged in the latest round 
of Audio Ability.

Big thanks to today’s guests Gemma, Paul and Tash; 
to producer Nat Grant; 
and our invaluable listeners.  
Yeah, you!  
Nat and I produced this at 3CR, 
for broadcast on the Community Radio Network.

Our intro music is from jazz composer Enne R of Tarndanya, 
exploring autistic life 
and (by the sounds of it) 
just casually referencing Baudrillard 
on ‘Stimulacrum’.

Stay tuned.  
Plenty more community radio coming your way, 
on your local community radio station.

I’m Kermie Breydon, I’ll be back next episode.

Meanwhile, 
the podcast and transcript live 
on 3cr.org.au/radicalradio 
and what you’re hearing right here is 
‘off my chest’, by Nat Luna, on Kaurna Yerta.

Catch you next time.

(Music: Nat Luna ‘off my chest’)

*Voiceover*
You’ve been listening to a 3CR podcast, 
produced in the studios 
of independent community radio station 3CR 
in Melbourne, Australia.  

For more information, go to 
all the Ws dot 3cr.org.au